|  Author | Topic: How do we turn this around? (Read 6,128 times) |
hamptonbull
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|  | Re: How do we turn this around?
« Reply #75 on Sept 19, 2012, 7:11am » | |
Sept 18, 2012, 10:07pm, fishlock4ever wrote:| I am not sure how you can conclude that DK is slowly delivering. |
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OK.
I conclude that DK is slowly delivering because he's managed to at least crack, if not break, the downward spiral. Now, I can already hear the scornful laughter of those who'll point out that we've been relegated, but in my opinion, without improved off-field income it was only a matter of time before relegation became inevitable regardless of who was in charge (a reason, I believe, why GT sold up).
As better informed persons have pointed out, the 'new stand' proposed by GT was a) not approved by the Richardsons, and b) if they had given it the green light, they would have taken most of the profits made.
Keyte has removed the Richardsons from the picture, re-built the 'un-rebuildable' social club (that's exceeding expectations), and is having productive talks with firms who may wish to help fund redevelopment of the ground. I would say that is 'slowly delivering'.
I really don't want another GT vs DK thread, but if Phoenix (amongst others) believes Keyte hasn't got the money, then GT certainly didn't. Under Turner we made a small (footballing wise) profit over the last few seasons, but had virtually no other forms of income apart from gate reciepts - and none in the pipeline.
I'm not defending our relegation - eyes were taken off the ball with regards to on-field matters (although bad luck had a part to play), but a corner has been turned with regards to the infrastructure of the club.
I have to say that I find it interesting that a number of those who begrudge the money spent on the social club are exiles who are unlikely to use it.
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Beans
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« Reply #76 on Sept 19, 2012, 8:17am » | |
Sept 19, 2012, 7:11am, hamptonbull wrote:| without improved off-field income it was only a matter of time before relegation became inevitable regardless of who was in charge |
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Relegation inevitable? GT showed with the same facilities for generating income that we could be promoted to league 1 whilst making profit. Ok, we didn't do too well in L1 but if DK is hoping that a social club and a block of flats can sustain us at a higher level than that then he's in dreamland. If we ever make it to L1 under Keyte I will happily apologise. The way we're going we are more likely to end up in the BSBS/N or lower.
Sept 19, 2012, 7:11am, hamptonbull wrote:| As better informed persons have pointed out, the 'new stand' proposed by GT was a) not approved by the Richardsons, and b) if they had given it the green light, they would have taken most of the profits made. |
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a) As I remember, wasn't the "not approved" quote just a newly recruited office boy saying that he didn't have any knowledge of the prior plans? What makes people think that the new stand wouldn't be approved by the Richardsons?
b) So, whatever extra that might have been built was automatically going to become profitable?
Sept 19, 2012, 7:11am, hamptonbull wrote:| Keyte has removed the Richardsons from the picture, re-built the 'un-rebuildable' social club (that's exceeding expectations), and is having productive talks with firms who may wish to help fund redevelopment of the ground. I would say that is 'slowly delivering'. |
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The club borrowed more than 200k to build that. How many years of profits (assuming it's profitable) will it take to pay that off?
Sept 19, 2012, 7:11am, hamptonbull wrote:
but a corner has been turned with regards to the infrastructure of the club |
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Yeah, the corner was turned when we squandered our last 500k on leases that were worthless to the Richardsons, plunging us into a very precarious financial position. What was the rush of getting the leases back when we were skint?
Sept 19, 2012, 7:11am, hamptonbull wrote:
I have to say that I find it interesting that a number of those who begrudge the money spent on the social club are exiles who are unlikely to use it. |
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True 
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ExLandlord
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« Reply #77 on Sept 19, 2012, 8:24am » | |
a) As I remember, wasn't the "not approved" quote just a newly recruited office boy saying that he didn't have any knowledge of the prior plans? What makes people think that the new stand wouldn't be approved by the Richardsons?
No, that quote came directly from DK. In fact, when they (DK & TR) went to meet the Richardsons, the guy that GT claimed to have been negotiating with had left the company twelve months previous.
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« Reply #78 on Sept 19, 2012, 8:40am » | |
Sept 18, 2012, 9:01pm, phoenix wrote:Hampton Bull when I began to watch the Bulls do you know who the league 2 whipping boys were? Tranmere and Hartlepool.
Both clubs now are stable league one clubs with improved facilities. What I hope for isn't a billion pound investment but one that improves facilities as has been talked about for years and improves our playing budget. In the case of Edgar Street that means a seven figure investment....end of.
So whilst you see me as an impatient dreamer whom once you've stripped away the passion and emotion offers little, I would argue that your vision and certainly Barney Rubbles is probably a classic example of why progress at this club is still talk and not reality.
As you enter Herefordshire nowadays the sign says "Here you can" I'd argue that if you and Barney applied your "realism" to that sign it would read, " Here you can't because its a small population, wages are low, why not try Tranmere or Hartlepool"
I don't want us to be a billionaire's plaything, the ground investment could come from the building of flats at one end, the ESG and hotel at the other but it will cost millions. What I seek is a return to where Hereford has already been....a club with 4-6k crowds playing in the football league. It's not pie in the sky and Barney boy it aint a chuffing town. 
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Just to put you right on one thing Phoenix,Tranmere got their multi millionaire years ago,his name is Peter Johnson and he was the founder of Park Hampers ( Christmas Hamper Company) and Chairman of the Logistics company Nightfreight.
He bought Tranmere in 1986,I think,just before they went into Receivership.Prior to his purchase the club had announced that they couldn't carry on,were going to close down ala Accrington Stanley and wouldn't attempt to fight on.They were almost bottom of Div 4 in what was the first season of automatic relegation.
Johnson immeadiately appointed club legend Johnny King as manager, he saved them from relegation in the last match of the season,7500 attended, Lincoln went down and from then onwards with Kings astute management and Johnsons money Tranmere quickly went up to the Championship ,lost a Carling Cup Final to Leicester at Wembley, lost out in the Championship Play Offs in consecutive seasons and completely rebuilt all 4 sides of their ground.Attendances peaked at about 9,000.
So even lower down the scale most clubs need a rich man at the helm and an astute manager.Shrewsbury were lucky with their situation with the council fighting them all of the way to Westminster actually helped them as land prices sky rocketed during the intervening 10 years.
I think that HUFC have the astute lower league/non league manager plus a Chairman who is trying to do the "right thing" what the clubs needs is someone who is local, and preferably a HUFC supporter, with a substantial amount of money to invest.If that means that DK has to step down and make way then so be it
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Beans
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« Reply #79 on Sept 19, 2012, 9:01am » | |
Sept 19, 2012, 8:24am, ExLandlord wrote:a) As I remember, wasn't the "not approved" quote just a newly recruited office boy saying that he didn't have any knowledge of the prior plans? What makes people think that the new stand wouldn't be approved by the Richardsons?
No, that quote came directly from DK. In fact, when they (DK & TR) went to meet the Richardsons, the guy that GT claimed to have been negotiating with had left the company twelve months previous. |
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Then why did David Keyte say this......
"We've had one initial meeting with the Richardsons"
"The Blackfriars End developement is one under that cloud. Before we arrived the club went through the process of getting plans drawn up but those were drawn up with direct work alongside the Richardsons architects. So that what was approved for the football club, a little 1600 seated stand"
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ExLandlord
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« Reply #80 on Sept 19, 2012, 10:00am » | |
Sept 19, 2012, 9:01am, Beans wrote:
Sept 19, 2012, 8:24am, ExLandlord wrote:a) As I remember, wasn't the "not approved" quote just a newly recruited office boy saying that he didn't have any knowledge of the prior plans? What makes people think that the new stand wouldn't be approved by the Richardsons?
No, that quote came directly from DK. In fact, when they (DK & TR) went to meet the Richardsons, the guy that GT claimed to have been negotiating with had left the company twelve months previous. |
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Then why did David Keyte say this......
"We've had one initial meeting with the Richardsons"
"The Blackfriars End developement is one under that cloud. Before we arrived the club went through the process of getting plans drawn up but those were drawn up with direct work alongside the Richardsons architects. So that what was approved for the football club, a little 1600 seated stand" |
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I don't know.
I'd assume the "we've had one meeting" quote refers to the meeting at which it became apparent that the guy had left the company.
"drawn up with direct work alongside the Richardsons architects" could mean any number of things including the plans being drawn by the architects that did the Wolves stadium (something else we were told at one point) with a view to the Richardsons' architects adding their "development" at a later date. The "approval" is probably the planning application which was approved by The Council shortly after DK/TR took over. The initial application, if you recall, was rebuffed due to issues with the floodlights.
Where did those quotes come from? I can't find them anywhere on t'internet.
Awaits a link to a BN article
Edit: found it on BN.
It also says..
The outer part of it is the Richardsons including the social club, the backside of the current Blackfriars Stand and the scrubby bits behind the Meadow End.
"They don't seem to be either willing or able to progress things.
We're not going anywhere. They're not going anywhere at the moment and that's what it has been like for probably about ten years.
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Beans
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« Reply #81 on Sept 19, 2012, 10:22am » | |
Nice edit -"I wasn't there?"
So they approved it and helped design it but they we're being a bit slow about progressing things.
That's a hell of a lot different to not knowing anything about it.
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Indefatigabull
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« Reply #82 on Sept 19, 2012, 10:43am » | |
At last, a thread which is interesting and hasn't (quite) descended into personal insults.
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« Reply #83 on Sept 19, 2012, 10:49am » | |
I found the BN article
No, it doesn't say that The Richardsons had approved it. I think the comments about it not going anywhere show that.
When DK made his remarks at the fans forum I believe they were generalisations whereas when I met him I asked him specific questions which he answered.
Most likely is that The Richardsons had given approval for the plans to be drawn but had not given approval for a commencement to the work. There is a big difference. Having plans drawn and a grant application approved would certainly have added apparent value for a sale.
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The older you get, the more important it is to not act your age.
There's 10 types of people - those that understand binary and those that don't.
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dirtydog
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| | Re: How do we turn this around?
« Reply #84 on Sept 19, 2012, 10:49am » | |
Sept 19, 2012, 7:11am, hamptonbull wrote:
Sept 18, 2012, 10:07pm, fishlock4ever wrote:| I am not sure how you can conclude that DK is slowly delivering. |
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OK.
I conclude that DK is slowly delivering because he's managed to at least crack, if not break, the downward spiral. Now, I can already hear the scornful laughter of those who'll point out that we've been relegated, but in my opinion, without improved off-field income it was only a matter of time before relegation became inevitable regardless of who was in charge (a reason, I believe, why GT sold up).
As better informed persons have pointed out, the 'new stand' proposed by GT was a) not approved by the Richardsons, and b) if they had given it the green light, they would have taken most of the profits made.
Keyte has removed the Richardsons from the picture, re-built the 'un-rebuildable' social club (that's exceeding expectations), and is having productive talks with firms who may wish to help fund redevelopment of the ground. I would say that is 'slowly delivering'.
I really don't want another GT vs DK thread, but if Phoenix (amongst others) believes Keyte hasn't got the money, then GT certainly didn't. Under Turner we made a small (footballing wise) profit over the last few seasons, but had virtually no other forms of income apart from gate reciepts - and none in the pipeline.
I'm not defending our relegation - eyes were taken off the ball with regards to on-field matters (although bad luck had a part to play), but a corner has been turned with regards to the infrastructure of the club.
I have to say that I find it interesting that a number of those who begrudge the money spent on the social club are exiles who are unlikely to use it. |
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It comes back to the same old argument. Most fans aren't interested in off the field activities, they just want to see a decent team out on the pitch playing entertaining and occasionally successful football. When I come to Edgar Street the only things i pay for are parking and admission. Social clubs, refreshments, plush new stands are irrelevant, as long as I have a good view of the pitch all that matters is that happens on it.
Until Keyte realises this we will continue on our downward spiral.
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« Reply #85 on Sept 19, 2012, 11:15am » | |
Sept 19, 2012, 10:43am, Indefatigabull wrote:| At last, a thread which is interesting and hasn't (quite) descended into personal insults. |
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cLOTHING sTORE oFF yOU cOMPLETE bELLEND!
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« Reply #86 on Sept 19, 2012, 11:31am » | |
I'm not defending our relegation - eyes were taken off the ball with regards to on-field matters (although bad luck had a part to play)
I normally agree with your posts, as much as I agree with anybody on here, but pray, what 'bad luck' was there? The most avoidable aspect of our current situation was relegation-there was no 'bad luck' involved, just a long, tedious succession of rubbish decisions and useless managers.
The paradox is that in the end we totally deserved to go down but that at the same time it was so easily avoidable.
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Impeachabull
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« Reply #87 on Sept 19, 2012, 12:33pm » | |
Sept 19, 2012, 7:11am, hamptonbull wrote:| As better informed persons have pointed out, the 'new stand' proposed by GT was a) not approved by the Richardsons, and b) if they had given it the green light, they would have taken most of the profits made. |
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I'd be very surprised if the Richardsons permitted the club to submit a planning application without approving the new stand.
In order to finance any development, the club will have to acquire an external investor. What's the difference between a housebuilding company taking a proportion of the profits and the Richardson's take a proportion? Negligible, I'd have thought.
Sept 19, 2012, 7:11am, hamptonbull wrote:| Keyte has removed the Richardsons from the picture, re-built the 'un-rebuildable' social club (that's exceeding expectations), and is having productive talks with firms who may wish to help fund redevelopment of the ground. I would say that is 'slowly delivering'. |
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Personally, I don't believe the social club will produce any substantial income for the club, nor do I believe that the ownership of the leases is particularly valuable.
When the manager states that:
"The club financially was in a perilous position and we've got to make sure the club survives this year."
It's pretty difficult to argue the chairman is 'slowly delivering'.
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ExLandlord
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« Reply #88 on Sept 19, 2012, 12:53pm » | |
I'd be very surprised if the Richardsons permitted the club to submit a planning application without approving the new stand.
You don't need the landlord's permission to submit a planning application. So long as you have correctly drawn plans and pay The Council's fees you can apply.
In order to finance any development, the club will have to acquire an external investor. What's the difference between a housebuilding company taking a proportion of the profits and the Richardson's take a proportion? Negligible, I'd have thought.
GT said the Blackfriars stand would be paid for by "our" own money together with the grants.
With regard to the other developments, I'm sure I remember him saying he would still have to find "partner" investors.
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Impeachabull
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« Reply #89 on Sept 19, 2012, 1:31pm » | |
Sept 19, 2012, 12:53pm, ExLandlord wrote:| You don't need the landlord's permission to submit a planning application. So long as you have correctly drawn plans and pay The Council's fees you can apply. |
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I'm no planning law expert, but I don't think that's correct. You have to submit an ownership certificate with planning applications, if you don't own the land then you have to notify all owners of the land. An owner means a person who has a freehold interest, or a leasehold interest.
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